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A mostly accurate transcript for Ep. 4711
“I can’t imagine if somebody asked me to share these really vulnerable things and didn’t acknowledge that it’s a gift that that person is giving, and it’s not a gift to the writer. It’s a gift to everybody who will read it.” — Cassidy Randall, from Ep. 471
Look who’s back … it’s Cassidy Randall!
I tell you, CNFers, I heard the news this week, the news that Marc Maron is sunsetting WTF this fall. I feel a bit gutted. There’s a special bond that forms between a podcast host and their audience, even when it feels very one-sided. I know he and his producer are ready for it to end, 16 years, two pods a week. But, man, it’s like losing a friend.
Today we welcome back Cassidy, and you might be saying what the fuck, BO? Why don’t you spread the wealth? And I’m just as likely to tell you to suck on a lemon. Cassidy is back because she’s got a new Atavist feature out, so spoilers ahead.
The piece is already live at magazine.atavist.com. It’s called “The Longest Journey: Lena Rowat skied 1,600 grueling miles across the Coast Range to quite her demons. But she didn’t begin to silence them until tragedy struck.”
Yeah …
Got a new review for the pod, and I always like to read them when they publish, so here’s one from :
OK, so Cassidy is back. She was on the show a few weeks ago to talk about Thirty Below, her magisterial narrative of the first six women to summit Denali. It’s still the leader in the clubhouse for the first ever CNFy Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence (Yes, I ripped that off from the Simplsons). Oh, yes, either trophies or plaques will be made.
Cassidy’s first atavist story was anthologized in The Year’s Best Sports Writing in 2023, I think. She also co-wrote/ghost wrote The Hard Parts with Oksana Masters. She’s a very accomplished writer, even she might not feel like it. Cassidy has really found her lane in outdoor adventure stories that center women in this predominantly, or let’s say historical masculine subculture.
We talk about
- The productivity trap
- Feeling crappy about day jobs because you want to be writing full time, but then feeling crappy about writing full time and wishing for a day job so the writing can be more joyful
- And a great recommendation for late spring and early summer.
So let’s welcome back Cassidy Randall!
On productivity…
“It’s definitely something I’ve been thinking about quite a lot in terms of the fact that we are sort of drinking from a fire hose of content right now. And it makes me wonder — because I feel like I’m stuck on this wheel that I have to produce all the time — Do I even want to write for money anymore? I don’t know.”
On creating a headline and subhead …
“To me, honing in on that headline and that sub header are so important to figuring out what I actually want to write about. And I know, from my experience, that editors so appreciate that too.”
What she learned from Jonah Ogles …
“He taught me a lot about about immersing readers, I think, in a way that is really powerful, and a lot of that does have to do with pacing. I learned a lot about pacing from him, and that is really invaluable, and how pacing is really different, right, depending on how much time you have to play with words. Like the pacing in books, you can draw things out quite a lot more, or you can interrupt things a lot more. You have to, right, sometimes you have to interrupt non stop action give readers a little relief. But you don’t necessarily want to interrupt readers and give them relief if the piece is only 10,000 words, right? So I learned so much in terms of structure and pacing and really how you bring somebody along with you in a story.”
On getting things right …
“She is incredibly emotionally aware. She’s very wise, but a lot of this is really vulnerable, really vulnerable stuff to talk about. I mean, I told her that from the get go, and I shared passages with context with her to be sure she was comfortable and that I was getting things right. It’s really important to me that I’m getting things right when somebody is willing to share these vulnerable things with me. To get those things wrong and then have them be published, I can’t even imagine that would be absolutely horrific for somebody. That you trusted this writer, and then they just paraphrase something and it ended up changing the nuance entirely, likenuance is so important and so.”
On trust …
“I can’t imagine if somebody asked me to share these really vulnerable things and didn’t acknowledge that it’s a gift that that person is giving, and it’s not a gift to the writer. It’s a gift to everybody who will read it that will say I always thought I was alone in this, and now I know that there are other people who feel this way, or I’ve been looking for a way through and here is a potential path for somebody who’s experienced something like I have.”
“I never shared a whole draft, because that’s bad journalism in a lot of different ways, depending on what the piece is and what the publication’s policies are, but I would share really intense passages with Lena just to be sure, because I think that that is just courtesy, right? I mean, to for her to have some sense of how she’s going to appear is, I think, necessary to have that kind of trust.”
Cassidy’s Rec
Go enjoy a walk outside in the spring and summer air.
Parting Shot: Book Endurance
I’ve probably riffed on this topic as it pertains to book writing, this idea of book endurance. Book writing isn’t a marathon, that’d be easy, it’s an ultra marathon, but so is the promotion machine.
At first I was a bit dismayed when The Front Runner came out because there was no flood of media, no fireworks, no bubbly. I did treat myself to a liter of Pelegrino sparkling water ahead my Powell’s event (I’ll explain that reasoning perhaps in another parting shot, maybe the episode with Melissa Febos, which might be publishing today as part of a double feature Friday … whatever) … point being, you see many writers, not even famous ones, who seem to have this slate of events, a summer booked up, a spring loaded, and I don’t have that.
As far as local media is concerned, The Register-Guard and The Eugene Weekly, where I know people, ignored the book. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that they’re waiting for another time, but that was a bummer. Thankfully, local radio from Eugene to Portland has picked up me, KLCC in Eugene and Oregon Public Broadcasting in Portland, as well KATU TV in Portland, but Eugene, by and large, has given me the cold shoulder. An acquaintance of mine said, “Sorry about the cold shoulder from Eugene. Weird… but with a long historical shadow.”
The literary scene in Eugene is pretty weird and not entirely supportive. As an outsider coming in (I’ve lived here for almost ten years now), it could be that Eugene doesn’t take kindly to outsiders.
My reach, such as it is, is more national, even international. I see you Botswana! But I take a deep breath and offer gratitude to a publication like the Wall Street Journal, which wrote a largely positive review of the book, which I framed in my studio. That was big validation for me, for the book.
The Powell’s event was pretty great. Sparsely attended, but we had a fine discussion among about 20 people. I thought we’d get double that, but that’s what I get for having expectations. That way lies madness.
The people who were there were engaged and bought some books. One guy bought four. I think I fucked up in just about every book I signed. I won’t explain it because it’s hard to vocalize, but I did a typo in every one. Makes it more unique, right? Fucking idiot …
We’ve got some events sprinkled over the summer. The Pre Classic over July 4 should be the tent pole event of the summer. Thousands and thousands of track fans will be on hand. I’ll be signing from 10-12 on July 5, then I get to watch the track meet and I’ve never been to an international professional track meet. So I can’t wait to see these freaks get after it.
This book was always going to be about the long game. And people are going to come to it more by word of mouth than by any major media appearance.
It’s been in the world for two weeks and I think it’s going well. I’m excited for the summer ahead and maybe make some waves during the fall marathon season before setting it aside and letting it run on its own.
Many Moons Ago
400 Episodes Ago
Working Backward with Elizabeth Rush
300 Episodes Ago
AC Shilton — Arrival Fallacy, ‘The Innocent Man,’ and Chickens
200 Episodes Ago
Brin-Jonathan Butler, ‘The Passenger,’ and “Giving Up the Ghost’
100 Episodes Ago
- Should you elect to cite this transcript, please check it against the audio and credit me and the podcast. ↩︎
