“I like to write books that sound like someone telling the story over a campfire.”
“You learn something when you listen to books that way. You start to hear that music of the language.”
“When I experience something interesting, I need to compose it in words.”
Hey, how’s it goin’, friend? I’m Brendan O’Meara and this is my podcast, The Creative Nonfiction Podcast, the show where I speak to badass writers, filmmakers, and producers about the art and craft of telling true stories. This is the last episode of 2018. We’ve averaged one episode a week for an entire year with no break and we’re finishing the year strong.
Debbie Millman, host of Design Matters, author of several books, and a titan in branding, joins me on the podcast. Photo credit: John Madere
By Brendan O’Meara
“Getting to know who someone is, going into their world, when I research someone I feel like I’m entering their world and almost becoming them and seeing the world through their eyes in an effort to figure out what’s important for them to talk about.” —Debbie Millman (@debbiemillman)
Welcome CNFers, I’m @BrendanOMeara, Brendan O’Meara in real life and this is @CNFPod, or The Creative Nonfiction Podcast, the show where I speak to badass writers, filmmakers, and producers about the art and craft of telling true stories.
If you want to get better at the form, you’ve come to the right place. This is our little corner of the Internet. If you’re here for the first time, welcome, welcome, crack open a notebook, pour yourself a cup of coffee and settle in, CNFers. You’re gonna find we do things a little different on this show.
Where to start? My guest is Debbie Millman. Yes, you heard that correctly. Your ears did not deceive you. I didn’t bother digging too deep into Debbie’s origin story because there are several podcasts where she dives into that and I wanted to spare her from repeating herself. Maybe I was too timid in that regard, but I figured I’d steer the ship toward other things.
At this point in the introduction is usually where I riff on what’s going on, maybe offer some insights into how you can improve your work by sharing something I find helpful. But…sometimes the most helpful thing is getting the f*ck out of the way.
In seventeen words Debbie Millman is a writer, designer, educator, artist, brand consultant, and host of the podcast Design Matters.
But in a single word? Debbie is an inspiration. She made a name for herself as a graphic designer and branding guru after years and years of rejections, failures, and false starts. She’s persistent sometimes, she admits, to a fault.
Her writing is tight and playful. It’s deep, meaningful, resonant, and beautiful to look at as most of her essays are illustrated in her whimsical way of inking and penciling.
As for her career in branding, if you’ve seen the Burger King logo, various Pepsi products, Tropicana, Haagen Daas, and Twizzlers (totally twisted), then you’ve seen her work. If it makes the supermarket look prettier, odds are Debbie had a hand in that.
She was the president of Sterling Brands for 20 years, and under her stewardship grew the company from 15 employees to 150.
But after a decade of being a titan in her field, from 1995 to 2005, often at the expense of her own creative projects, her writing, her drawing, her painting, she was granted the opportunity to host an internet radio program that, I must add, she had to pay to produce, called Design Matters. This was in 2005.
Fourteen years later and she’s still doing it and for my money she, along with Joe Donahue of WAMC Northeast Public Radio, are the best interviewers around. I have a reason for this and I talk about this with Debbie.
She has interviewed Milton Glaser, Malcolm Gladwell, Anne Lamott, Seth Godin, Shepard Fairey, and hundreds more. Design Matters is a testament to her endurance and generosity. It wasn’t until she had done the show for several years that it really began to gain traction, win awards, and become the behemoth that it is today.
I could go on and on and I must apologize for my titanic nerves in this episode. I mean, I suffer from them all the time, but this one was especially bad, for that I’m sorry, but getting the chance to speak to Debbie for nearly an hour was such an esteemed honor that I had trouble keeping my you-know-what together.
Okay, I hope you dig what Debbie and I made for you. Enjoy….
If you haven’t already, consider subscribing to The Creative Nonfiction Podcast on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher and subvert the algorithms across the social platforms. If you liked the show, share it with just one friend. Email them the link or share it on social media. And tag me @BrendanOMeara and @CNFPod so I can toast to your awesomeness.
Consider leaving an honest review on iTunes as well. I want to see it hit 100 ratings. We’re gonna get there in 2019, but it starts with you. If you have five minutes to spare, please give the show some love.
Thanks to our sponsors in Goucher College’s MFA in Nonfiction as well as Creative Nonfiction Magazine.
David Lee Morgan, a prolific sports writer, now teaches high school English in his native Ohio.
“Let them tell the story, let them find the story that maybe they didn’t even know was the story.” —David Lee Morgan (@DavidLeeMorgan)
“That’s how I overcome that self doubt. ‘Hey, do you trust yourself? Do you have enough material for people to say he is an expert or he really knows the topic of which he’s writing?’ Then if you do then you just write on.” —David Lee Morgan
If you’re anything like me, and one assumes you are because you find some value in this humble little podcast, you need constant prodding in a sense. That can either be to get your work done or to get your brain in check. I’m one of those dudes who gets pretty down pretty easily, so it helps to have guests on who inspire me.
David was a long time sports writer for the Akron Beacon Journal and most recently he turned his attention to teaching high school English, a move he doesn’t regret in the slightest. For the people who say “If you can’t do teach,” one of the more insulting things you can say to any artist who teaches or teachers who don’t make art, I give you David, who not only is a brilliant writer, but by the very nature of his attitude and approach, makes him that rare teacher that inspires with every lesson.
To be frank, I haven’t been in David’s classroom, but if my 90 minutes with him is any indication of what it’s like to sit at a desk in his class, well, sign me up. I might have done better on the SAT.
Glenn Stout is the author of several books, most recently “The Pats,” and the series editor for Best American Sports Writing.
By Brendan O’Meara
“You look for the narrative, which tells a larger story.” —Glenn Stout (@glennstout)
“I never try to write a valentine. I always try to tell the story straight.” —Glenn Stout
Buckle up, CNFers, I’m Brendan O’Meara and this is my podcast, the show where I speak to the best writers and filmmakers, producers and podcasters about the art and craft of telling true stories. I try and extract habits and routines around the work so you can apply those tools of mastery to your own work.
Brin-Jonathan Butler has the world record for appearances on The Creative Nonfiction Podcast at four times. In honor of that, here’s a riff in 4/4 time.
“What I’m doing when I’m not working is thinking.” —Natalie Singer (@Natalie_Writes)
Hey, this is The Creative Nonfiction Podcast, the show where I speak to the best artists about the craft of telling true stories. Today I welcome Natalie Singer, author of California Calling: A Self Interrogation to the show.
We talk about confidence, or the lack thereof, books as mentors, and day jobs and feeling shame for day jobs. I hope to change that perception over the next six million episodes, but shame is real, man, it is real. This brought up the great story about Andre Dubus III and how he wrote his famous book in 17-minute spurts.
Well, are you subscribed to the show? You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and just about anywhere else you get your pods. If you like this episode, tell one friend. Hand the show off like a baton and let them run with it. I’d love to see the show grow. For a small show, we get some big headliners. I’d love to keep that going. The headliners bring more ears so that we little people can get some attention we might not otherwise get. It’s getting there. We march on.
Got a newsletter you should consider subscribing to. I give out reading recommendations, but I’m also thinking of sprinkling in some other cool stuff I’ve stumbled on over the past month in the vein of Austin Kleon’s newsletter. I love his newsletter. I’m gonna Steal Like an Artist. See what I did there?
Okay, this is my conversation with Natalie Singer…
You doing the newsletter thing? Subscribe here at the website. And if you like the show, share it with a friend, just one friend. The pod needs to keep on growing. Otherwise, what are we doing? Otherwise people won’t want to come on the show. They’ll be like, you’re not worth my time and I’ll be like, “Man, that hurts, Mom.” So please share it with a friend and subscribe if you haven’t.
Tweetables by Elena Passarello (@elenavox on Twitter):
“I loved going to the library and getting lost.”
“I wanted to dig deeper into the essay collection as the essay.”
Welcome wayward CNFers, it’s the Creative Nonfiction Podcast, the show where I speak to bad ass writers, filmmakers, movers and shakers about the art and craft of telling true stories. Here you’ll learn the story, tips, and tactics that will inspire you to greater heights in your own own work. I’m your host Brendan O’Meara, hey, hey.
“The possibilities of doing something similar [to fiction] in nonfiction really did appeal to me.” —Tracy Kidder
“I don’t look for subjects. I look for people.” —Tracy Kidder
Are you riffin’ kiddin’ me!?
By virtue of today’s guest I’m assuming there might be a new CNFer or two to our little marauding gang of turbulent souls in this corner of the Internet.
Welcome. We play heavy metal music, we kick maximum ass, and we will, we will rock you. This is The Creative Nonfiction Podcast (subscribe!), the show where I speak to bad ass tellers of true stories about where they came from, what and who inspires them, and how they approach the work, so that you can apply those tools of mastery to your own work. I’m your mutha-riffin’ host Brendan O’Meara, hey, hey.
“I’m always learning about structure. Always.” —Susan Orlean (@susanorlean)
Oh, hey, welcome to the show, CNFers, and, my, my, my are you in for a treat. Susan Orlean, @susanorlean on Twitter, a New Yorker staff writer and the best selling author of The Orchid Thief, Rin Tin Tin, and now her latest book, The Library Book (Simon & Schuster, 2018), is out now. And it’s everything you’d expect from her work.
